Title: How to create a healthy emotional relationship with money_0

Welcome, everybody to building my legacy podcast I have with me today, Bob Wheeler. Bob Wheeler is a certified public accountant. And he is a stand up comic as well. So has a lot to talk about and to share. Most importantly, he has just come out with a brand new book called The money nerve, negotiating the emotions of money. And Bob, I think right now with what’s going on in our world and in all around us. What an incredible topic to talk about, because I think there isn’t a person that doesn’t have any emotion right now relative to right. Absolutely.

He has some great insights into looking at how do you have a healthy relationship with money. And so I made two, let you get started and one of the things that I sure would like to know is how do you have a healthy relationship with money? Especially in a very uncertain time, like we have right now?

Yeah, that’s a great question. The thing is, I, most people, when I initially talk to people and say that there’s emotions involved, they’ll just sort of laugh at me and say, I don’t have any emotions around money. And then I’ll say, Oh, really? So when you split the bill, do you split it evenly? Do you make sure that you paid for your dessert and not somebody else’s wine? And they’re like, oh, gosh, yeah, okay. Yes, I get emotional. And once people start to realize that they’re making decisions based on unconscious money, decisions, or money, beliefs, or mom and dad’s voice pops in. Then once we get aware of it, we can actually then start saying, oh, gosh, I didn’t realize this was going on for me. Yeah, I’m in fear. I’ve got anxiety. I’ve got a family. There’s no money coming in. Now we got to pay the mortgage got to pay the rent, and allow some space to just actually acknowledge that there’s some fear and anxiety there.

So, when there’s fear and anxiety, most of us go to flight. Right? You can’t duke it out with your money, basically, you’d like to sometimes but if there’s nobody to duke it out with except yourself. So the other response that we have under with fears flight, so and that’s not healthy either. So right? How do you begin that conversation?

So if somebody is in a relationship, so husband and wife, they’re in the middle of this stress right now, sit down and start talking about Okay, realistically, what’s the worst thing that can happen? What are options? Do we really need the cable like what can We start taking off the table that isn’t really going to help us in the moment, and just actually start to realize, okay, they’re not going to take away my house. Nobody’s going to arrest me, everybody else is in the same boat. And to really just start affirming each other and saying, we’re going to get through this, we’re going to support each other. Let’s look at all of it and realize we might get emotional, we might get angry or scared or reactive. And let’s just know that this is something bigger than us. And let’s really make an effort to just navigate through this and know that things are going to come up for us. So that it’s not just Yes, I’m angry. And and not addressing the fact that Yeah, because I’m terrified. I can’t provide or we things were going so well before all of this happened.

So tell me how many people need financial therapy.

prop 85% of the country, you know, it’s interesting, even even my clients that are very high wealth, they can have 10 million $20 million. There’s still these fears around, do I deserve it? Other people are suffering. Maybe people are gonna find out I’m a fraud. There’s somebody better than me somebody more deserving and, and so regardless of the level of income, I’ve had clients where their parents were multi multi millionaires lost everything, and then they had to pretend like they were still wealthy, so that none of their friends would know. And the pressure of trying to pretend like they were keeping up with the Joneses, you know, was just incredible anxiety of being found out.

Yeah, so 85% are in need of some sort of financial therapy.

Was that before COVID hit? Or is that since COVID?

You know, I would say, it’s certainly gone up a little bit. But I think that most people, even my very successful clients that I deal with, often our our strategy meetings turn into a little bit of a therapy session. Because there’s just so much that we’re unaware of. I had a client who would be incredibly successful. And about every four or five years, she would have a major failure. And this pattern kept happening and her mom would always save her. And so we were having a conversation and I said, you know, it’s so weird. Every five or six years, you’ve the business fails, you make all this money, and your mom always bails you out. We started exploring it and realized that was the only way that she felt her mom loved her was when she saved her company. Oh, wow. And so she was creating this pattern of mom will save me and show me that she loves me. Even though she was incredibly successful, incredibly smart, she was unconsciously sabotaging because she needed affirmation. The mommy loved her.

Then interestingly, at all levels, we need affirmation, don’t we?

We do. We do. And

yeah. So tell me you operate out of two coasts, California and New York. Why those two coasts?

Well, I work with a lot of entertainment people. And most entertainment takes place in New York and LA. And so I have a lot of clients that are on both coasts. And so it just made sense to be certified in both and being able to work with with with all of those, I mean, I work with other people besides entertainment, but I just work with a lot of small businesses that are special have special effects, animation postproduction, songwriters and Those are the two capitals of entertainment. Sure.

So I’m curious, you, you have done comedy, you’re a stand up Stand up comic, and have done a fair amount of work in that area. I want to come back to it. Because you have to be rich and stories from living life with people, right? Yes, you have and you have something else. You are a hiker. You’ve done Kilimanjaro, you’ve done a number of major tracks. It’s not just a hike. It’s a truck. Yes. So accounting and the trucking. In the connection. You’ve also been in me with Africa, and there was something that happened there that was life changing. So if you would share that, please.

Yeah, so you know, before. Before my first overseas trip, I had a belief that only rich people traveled And I wasn’t rich, so I never traveled. And then of course, that got challenged. And I did start traveling. And when I went to Africa, what happened was, I had a mindset that we’ve only arrived and been successful if we’ve got the nice car, a house, a nice bank account. And that was sort of the model that I thought I was supposed to be working from these people in Tanzania, where average income was $99 a year. were incredibly happy. And they kept saying, Oh, you got to tell your friends and come back to our country. And I kept just my mind kept going. Something’s not right here. These people are happy. They don’t have a big screen TV. They don’t. They’re not driving even like just a basic good car. And it really, really rocked my world, to really start to look at what was important and To see that what was important to them was relationship connection community and, and just appreciating even the smallest things what we would consider trash, they considered a treasure. And and and it really was such a great stretch for me to actually go back and realize, wait a minute, there’s something bigger than just trying to hit all my marks and have the world go Good job is that which is what I think we tend to do here.

So how did that then impact you when you came back? Because you work with people who have a fairly deep at least our assumption is people in the entertainment business have a fair amount of wealth. So having had that insight, how did that change how you worked with people?

What it helped me to realize was that it’s great to To make money, I enjoy making money. I enjoy building businesses. And it’s not the only driving factor. So that when I see clients that are working 80 hours a week, which is what I was doing that if it’s not fulfilling if it’s not feeding your soul, if you’re not enjoying what you’re doing, then maybe it’s time to step back and reevaluate. Because for me, I work with clients that I love to work with. I like working with nice people. I like working with people that appreciate what I do. And that just makes it fun for me, so it doesn’t feel like work anymore. I actually feel like I’m in partnership with all of my clients. I’m in relationship with my my clients. And it’s not about how many tax returns Can I crank out how much money can I build out for the week, but it’s more about am I giving fully of myself? am I helping them reach their goals and really trying to help people see it’s great to have success. It’s great to have financial Abundance, there’s so much you can do with that. And it’s important to feed your soul and nourish yourself. And so for me, that was a big shift.

Yeah. So

you wrote the money nerve, the, the you came to writing it, because what why? Why did you write it?

Well, so it was interesting. I, a lot of my friends are comics. And one of my friends had I happen to be over at the Comedy Store and my friend was was crying because her family were all doctors, and all very successful people. And she just been shamed by her family for not being a good Jewish girl. And, and, you know, going into comedy, and she’s like, I’m the only one I’m so stupid, and I’m such a failure, and I have all this credit card debt. And I said to her, you know, you’re not the only one. Lots and lots of people pretend like they have money and they’re struggling financially, but they’re projecting or presenting a certain way. And she was like what? And she was shocked by that. Right the other at the same time as also exploring my own financial sabotage, as a CPA, staff, people that were admin clerks and stuff, were making better investments than me. were buying houses. And I’m like, What’s going on here? I know I make good money. I know I’m considered successful. And so I started my own journey about where was I self sabotaging and why? and realized that a lot of us are working from emotions that we’re not aware of. And so, like, you know, David Ramsey Suze Orman, it’s great what they tell you to do, save your money, don’t use credit cards. It’s great. But if you don’t understand why you’re doing it, it’s hard to change the habit. And so that propelled me to write the book so people would know they’re not alone. And there’s nobody Shame in not knowing how to do everything right off the bat.

So, Bob, it sounds to me like more than accounting, you could do therapy for people who are desperate to change their lives around.

Yeah. Right. Well, you know, I find when people start to deal with their relationship with money, that can also start to apply to their health, it can start to apply to the relationships with their family. And, you know, because I know myself and I know other people where I had money and so I felt guilty. So I’d give it away, instead of learning how to set a boundary and say, I actually need to take care of myself first. And then I can still help you, but not out of guilt out of out of abundance or out of choice. And, and so I do think looking at your relationship with money, forces you to evaluate, am I worthy? Am I good enough? Can I set boundaries Am I clear about my vision? Am I okay with being successful, and standing, because if you become successful and you’re a leader, people, you will become a target. And people say to me, but if I, if I get successful people might talk about me. Yeah, they might. But I’m still gonna go for it knowing that the rewards are so much more. But it’s just a wonderful thing to be able to step up and say, This is the legacy, this is the life that I want, and not apologize for wanting to have success.

Got it. So, you have also put together a course, for people the purpose of your course is what?

So the purpose of the course is to, to really help people start to understand their relationship to money to start looking at lineage, parental beliefs, cultural beliefs, we grew up in different communities is somebody that grows up a Quaker might be Somebody different than grows up a surfer, and, and starting to realize, Oh, these are the norm actives that I grew up with. These were the mantras that my parents told me money doesn’t grow on trees, you should only save or you should always spend because you never know. And to start to understand what we learn about gender. Right? In some families, men have a certain role women have a certain role, but in other families it’s reversed. And understanding how gender plays a part. And then starting to look at what do I fear? What are my a lot so many people are afraid of success, right? More people are afraid of success and failure, and starting to recognize and go, Oh, wow, I really am afraid. What’s the worst that can happen if I have success? I might have to, you know, confront some issues. And so through the course we really do a lot of exploring of what are what did I learn growing up? What are some money experiences that I had as a child, what do I want My life now and how can I actually then start to turn my dreams into reality? You know, a lot of times a dream is just something in the future. And in the course we actually turn it into how do I make it a goal, put a timetable on it and then actually bring it to fruition?

Well, so you what’s beautiful about what you’re doing is you’ve taken money and put it into the soul of the person. And I think there’s so few people who do that money is his objective is hardcore. Then you have feelings and you have your vision and your goals and where you’re trying to go. So I find that fascinating that you put that together as you have. Yeah. Because it is what we spend a lot of time as human beings in companies we argue over, where are we going to put our money? How are we getting Spend it Right, right. There’s that every level and emotion that goes with those decisions and impacts I think how we honestly come to the table. So I was thinking about a conversation with a CFO of a major company. And his comment was my job is to always say no. And probably it is because his job is to manage the expenses and to keep the company as profitable as possible. Right, right. So the less you spend, and the more you take in, the more profit you have at the end. But it’s such a habit, that then people don’t come with things anymore because they know it’s a no, right, right. Absolutely. Which is an emotion. So how does one begin these conversations that are difficult?

So, you know that it starts with a commitment to be willing to be uncomfortable initially because it gets uncomfortable and a willingness to be open to, are there other possibilities? When I was when, as I built my company that I brought in a lot of curiosity? Wow, I’m really curious about that. Well, isn’t it interesting how I seem to gravitate to these kinds of clients, or I hire these kinds of people? I asked myself, if, if I were a client, would I want to be a client of my company? as a staff person, I say to myself, would I want to work for me? And if not, what would I do differently to create an environment where I, as a client or I was a staff member would want to be a part of, of Bob’s company. And it requires a little bit of space to be able to willing to like my staff is allowed to come to me and say, Hey, something’s not working. It doesn’t mean They get the final decision. But I create space for them to be able to come and say, I think we could do this better. I make it a team effort. You know, every part of the team is important. I just happened to be my name’s on the door. But I really welcome the feedback and I really value what my staff is bringing to me. Some people will say, hey, if I could get this person for 30 bucks an hour, will save so much money. But I look at somebody and say, the person that’s 35 bucks an hour or 50 bucks an hour has so much more skill, that in the long run, I actually save money by investing in people and the relationship so I’m not just looking at Did I say five bucks? Because maybe exponentially I didn’t. Right.

So one of the things that I’ve had really a great deal of fun with actually, it during this time as we have dealt with the uncertainty With COVID-19 is asking brokers and different people in the financial world. How did they see things being different for individuals for companies coming out of this? What will have changed? Will anything have changed? And so let me ask you that question. Also what will be different?

what I hope will be different is I hope that people will take this time and recognize that maybe it’s not so bad to just slow down a little bit like that. We don’t need to be running on the hamster wheel so fast. And and that, maybe, you know, there’s a lot of people who’ve checked to check and they’re still surviving. Even though I’m sure there’s a lot of fear and anxiety. I hope that people will start to really look at priorities and say, Do I really need to have three cars and the jetski or do I want to have a college fun for my kid like and really start to think about what are the priorities, and then line them up, it doesn’t mean that you can’t have all of it. But at least if we can start to organize what’s important to me the most, and then work from there. I really hope that people take this time to be reflective, and and start to value. The fact that like I misconnection right now, I would like to be able to hold somebody’s hand, or just, I mean, I’ve been doing lots of zooming, but it would be like human contact is important. The environment is important. So I hope that people will really take the time to reflect about what’s important to them, and spend a little more time with their kids or spend a little more time sharing a meal with somebody instead of on the go on the go on the go. That’s what I hope people do and really prioritize about where their money goes. And, and and, yeah,

so what’s interesting about what you’re saying is

If I you know, when when I work with people and I’m talking with them about what’s going on why they’re doing things as they do within a company a leader to net to, to colleagues or whatever. One of the things that I realize is if people aren’t willing during that time to reflect, take time to reflect, no matter what I do, it is very difficult to change make the changes within the organization to help make it healthier. Right. Yeah. And but we’ve got so many people that have been Monday through Friday on an airplane going someplace, and they may be in two different cities in one day sometimes. Right and, and sometimes some people even more than that, sometimes in a day, and flying all over to different countries as well doing business and they come home, exhausted, give the leftovers to their family. Right. And then on Sunday evening or early Monday morning start again. And you, you know, so they would say, well, I’ll think about it on the plane, but the problem is on the plane, they’re getting ready for their meeting. They’re thinking about the mess, they just left at home, the pieces they couldn’t pick up in that one and a half days slot of time that they had, right. So reflection, I just find that fascinating that even at the financial level, you see that reflection is so critical, and taking the time for it. And it’s the one thing we don’t do. We get so busy here, right being hamsters, we don’t do that.

It’s so important. I know, with the Comedy Store, a lot of my clients and with my own staff, we’re taking the time to just How’s everybody doing? What’s going on for you? Like, Do you need anything? Why don’t you leave a little early today. Like let’s all just Really focus on staying healthy. And so having, having that space to reflect, I think it’s so invaluable with businesses, because we all are human beings. And that’s, that’s what connects us is our humanity. And I want us all to be able to like be the best version of ourselves in relationship. outwork. And if we can slow down a little bit, I think it leaves enough space to actually have more creativity and more productivity.

You know, but as people think about leaving legacy, thoughts that you have for them in terms of thinking about their money, so they have legacy or how they should plan for that.

Well, I think it’s really important to get clear about what you want your legacy to be. Do you do I want to leave money to a college to build a building? Do I want to leave it to my children you know, Look at somebody like Bill Gates, who’s leaving, you know, most of his money to organizations that are in service. And so whatever that legacy is for people, I think it’s really important to get clear about it, and then actually work out a plan to get there. Instead of Yeah, yeah, one day, one day, I’m gonna, I’m gonna have this big legacy. No, actually, okay, I want to, you know, I know for myself, I want to have a scholarship at the college that I went to. I’ve figured out how much I need to fund and I’m putting all that together, and I’ve addressed it in my life insurance so that it’s not something I’m going to do later. It’s actually something I’m doing now I’m laying the groundwork so that when the time comes, I will have the legacy instead of putting it off. I’ve worked with a lot of people that don’t want to deal with legacy or the future because they’re like, if we start talking about it, then that means I might die and interesting and we don’t want to have that conversation. The reality is, we’re probably all gonna die. I haven’t met anybody yet that’s beat it. And so to start planning now for the legacy, like, because I do think, I do think most of us, I think actually all of us want to be the best version of ourselves. And I think we all want to actually have impact or feel like that we’ve made an impact on the world, and that we want to leave the world a better place. I think deep down, we all have that desire. And like, it’s okay to have that desire. I think it’s awesome. And I want to have impact and I want to actually be really clear and conscious in my intentions to make sure that I do

you know, you But I, we could go on with this for a long time. And I think it’s one of those things that people could benefit so much. If only we could have a discussion at the same time as we have this right so people could it’s not so much calling in with questions but to generate their own discussion about what their own observations are, because I, it’s it’s key to so much of what we do. Absolutely. Our Time goes very quick. And so before we leave, though, I would like to know, anything we haven’t talked about that you would really like to share with the audience that you think is important for them to think about.

Well, I think, right now, it’s really important for people to sit down and reflect journaling is a great way to do it. Sit down with your kids, sit down with your spouse, your partner, your parents, and actually start having some conversations, not conflicts. A lot of people think a conversation around money has to be a conflict. It doesn’t, and to really, actually start talking about what’s important to each member of the family, and how do we work together. How do we honor what each of us brings to the table and, and really work on getting back to connection, and actually figuring out what’s important and how money and finances play a part in that. Because I certainly think the more we have abundance, the easier it is to, to be able to have our legacy to be able to live the life that we want. But to do it with integrity and to do it with with connection and relationship. So let’s spend the time

Let me ask you a personal question. If you don’t want it, you don’t have to do that. Okay, with your own family. What do you begin that conversation? Where do you start? And how do you set boundaries, so it doesn’t go into a duke it out session?

Yeah. So the way that I do that is I set the parameters. Hey, guys, I want to have this conversation. It might get uncomfortable. I’m not sure where it goes. Going to go. But I’m wondering if everybody would be willing to indulge me? And can we just start with a basic conversation? We don’t have to solve it all today. But let’s really we need to talk about the budget, or we need to talk about some financial choices, because we can’t do A, B, and C. So let’s figure out which one we can. And like, I want everybody to be able to have a voice. Are you willing? And I find that if we’re actually asking people to assist us, and help us, rather than telling them what they need to be doing, we get a lot more engagement. And so rather than saying to the wife or the partner, no, that’s not the way it is. It’s like, hey, help me figure out a better way so that we can all thrive. And so that’s how I set parameters is I just I asked for permission. I asked her willingness, and, like, hey, and if it gets crazy, let’s just take a break.

Great, great grown girls, thank you for that.

I’m gonna take and use those. So that’ll be wonderful. Thank you so much. Absolutely.

Absolutely.

And for all of you who are listening, Bob has graciously offered to give a 25% discount to any of you who are listening. We will put the link for the promo and the URL to link up to be able to get to the course that Bob is offering so that you can benefit from it. It is I think, something that we can all use especially coming out of this time right now. Anytime we can always use it I think but especially right now. So if looking in the show notes, we will have it there for you and please please enjoy it because it is your future or relationships. With everything is our future. And so it also will impact your ability to leave a legacy at some point. Bob, you have been incredible. Thank you so much for your wisdom and then also your money nerf book. Is it on Amazon?

It is on Amazon. That’s the best place to get it. Okay, it’s on Amazon. And you can always check out the money nerve comm website. We’ve got blogs, we’ve got tools for people such for communicating around money.

Okay, super, super. So thank you so much for your time. And thank you everybody for being with us today on building my legacy podcast. Bob. Thank you.

Thank you so much. It’s been a pleasure.