– Welcome everybody to today’s Building My Legacy Podcast. To help with me today, Kitty Kalman. She is a marketing specialist, and looks at lifestyle cycle marketing. And what she especially is interesting to me for is, she has spent a lot of time thinking about the backend of marketing. And that the backend is really that engine that keeps the whole process going. And we get so caught up in the message and how we’re gonna deliver, we forget sometimes about the backend. So, I’m going to let Kitty introduce herself. She is from Hungary originally and live in the UK. And has gotten very involved in the digital marketing space. And has made this her specialty to work with companies to really help them make their marketing work. So, Kitty, tell us a little bit about you, how you got to doing what you’re doing. And then we’ll talk a little bit about what it is that you are passionate about and why.

– Thank you very much Lois for having me here. And yeah, so how I got into this business is literally I used to work for corporate clients all over the world, Fortune one, two, three, and all the other fifties on one hundreds. And what makes me passionate is that I can bring the knowledge and expertise and the consultation experience, what I had there. And I merged it with all the technical skills and marketing skills, what I learned in the last five years, and the sales in the last 20. That I can merge all these things and deliver to other type of clients who are not the biggest companies all around the world, and make a bigger impact by reaching much more people around the word. Like having, when you have an impact on a business, you have an impact on the owner. You can help their service providers, their clients. So it’s literally having a real impact on their local reach. And that’s what makes us absurdly passionate about what we do.

– So talk to me a little bit about what lifecycle marketing is. What do you mean by that? And what do people need to think about relative to lifecycle marketing?

– So lifecycle marketing is, you can call it lifecycle marketing, you can call it a customer lifetime value. It can be called many different ways. And actually I just checked out that how other businesses call these things. And the funny thing is that everyone has a different terminology for the same thing. So, just to make it short, what lifecycle marketing is, it’s literally how you get from the grabbing the attention of the client until they drop off of your sales processes. So they get through all of your sales, how you deliver your services and products, and in the end, time when they leave you. So that’s their lifecycle marketing within your system. So that’s very important to understand, because sometimes when people think about, “Oh, I will build a sales funnel, that’s wonderful.” But if you have another sales funnel, or if you have another offer, then you have to also think about that. I have to, not just by then, but in general, you have to think about that you have to nurture all those clients. You have to nurture all those needs who haven’t converted before. And then by that, delivering more value and offering your other services and offers, which will help these people to achieve more and better results with your already purchased product. Then you are missing out because then you are calculating with one thing, but you have to look at the big picture as well to understand your numbers. Because if you see the lifetime value of a customer, then you will get real numbers and calculations, and understand, “Okay this is the money I spent in getting this client, and then this is the money I spent, I mean, earn by keeping them through the whole life cycle of my system.” So that will be the real value of your marketing. And that’s how you will be able to see that, “Oh my gosh, does it worth it to me to spend this money on an ad or not?”

– So, Kitty you talk about the backend. because I think many companies I see working very hard on the marketing and getting their message out. And we spend not as much time talking about the backend, which is what really keeps that ad fresh and alive and vibrant. So, talk a little bit about what you mean by the backend. What’s really essential?

– Well, the backend is literally everything where you say, “Oh, I have a sales funnel or an offer.” It can be even an opt-in form placed on your website in a blog, which many people miss. So, you have to give the chance to, for your ideal clients to find you, and then to opt into your systems. And now here is where the backend starts. Because if you’re, for example, you have a website, you have a CRM system, a customer relationship management system, which ideally nowadays are integrated with the an email marketing platform. So you have those. And if you have a membership site as well, then we are already talking about three systems. And then there’s a fourth one, which is the payment gateway. So you have to integrate all of these to communicate in the same way. So if you have a membership site, for example, for a course you have. And potentially some of these, the softwares already have their own email system. And if you started up in the wrong way, you will find yourself, “Oh, the system sent out a message,” and that system is not integrated. So they will never get into the segmentation and onto the list where they are supposed to be. So there will be a confusing messaging all around your platforms. And that’s a big problem. So, this is where all the nitty, gritty and geeky stuff kicks in, which can cause a lot of pain.

– So, Kitty, what do you find as some of the biggest challenges companies have working with their marketing process? And what drives them to come to seek your help, for example?

– Usually where they see their biggest problems are, is, well… It’s a good question. I have to think a little bit because there are many problems. They can come up, they have to realize it. And there is a difference between what they see and what we see. So, sometimes they see that, “Oh, there is a big drop off on our list, or there is no engagement, or there is the email…” So usually something around their emails that they realize that something is glitchy, or it doesn’t work, or their opt-in forms don’t work in the front end. So, something that’s technical and they see that, “Oh, something is, doesn’t work, but I don’t know what it is.” And that’s when some, usually we are coming into the game, we’re, “Okay, what’s the problem?” And then we see, oh, these things are not integrated. That information doesn’t come from the system where it’s supposed to go into this way. And all these email marketing automation is a big deal when not set up in the right way. People, for example, they think about, “Oh, I have this offer. I send out three emails and I’m done.” If they got there, there’s probably already something. But they have to think about the nurture of emails and how they are working together. So you have to finish one of these sequences where they opt-in, they receive their initial delivering of the offer of what they purchased. And after finishing that you can jump onto the nurture sequence. And you should, not just can. So, you should jump on the nurturing sequence where you send constant messaging value and offers to your clients. And that’s how we keep them coming back to us. And then understanding if they are happy, refferals, getting more leads. Yes, so when people want to grow, or businesses want to grow their income, optimizing their funnels, optimizing their systems, that’s when they come to us.

– Got it. So, as I hear you describe the process, one of the things that strikes me is, what I hear a lot from people, and that is, “You mean, I have to do this? When do I have time to really do my business? Right?

– Yeah.

– Do hear that as well?

– I know, actually we all face this, don’t we? So, in the very beginning, we all wear all the hats. And then we realize that, “Okay, if I want to focus on this part of the business, I have to either outsource it or do it myself.” So these are the two ways of doing it. And outsourcing is either hiring someone for it or literally outsourcing it through a third party. So, that’s how we save time, don’t we?

– That is how we save time. And sometimes it’s getting that help, isn’t it? That makes such a big difference. ‘Cause until you begin to look at what the processes is, and all the detail in the process, you don’t know what you want and need help sometimes. You just think, well, it will magically fall in place, but then it doesn’t, right?

– Yes, unfortunately, certain things don’t usually have this manner of being very polite and just, “Oh, I put myself to the right place for you.” so, they are not too cooperative. That’s why we are here to help businesses to understand how to do things, how to make things easier for them. Sometimes also another reason why businesses come to us, that, “Oh, I know I need a software.” So they’re already aware of the problem, and they’re already aware of the solution they are looking into, but they are not sure or not certain about it. And it’s still better to come to us at that time that, “Oh my gosh, which software should I use?” Because then we can look into the systems that, “Oh, okay, you use this, you use that, you use that. This is what you want to get out of your systems. And these are the apps we can suggest you to go down with, because these will work for you better than purchasing these things. And then you will have to mess up everything when you have to change in one year.”

– Right. So, if you were going to sit down, let’s pretend, I’m a new business that is wanting to grow. I have developed a business and I’m in a growth trajectory, and I know I need help. And so, I come to you, what would be the top three things that you would say a growth oriented business has to think about and have in place?

– Systems, definitely. So, before getting into crazy growth, if you have your systems in place, that will save you a ton of energy and time as well. Because all of the automations, when you set them up, as you said, it takes a lot of energy to write the emails, to even think about things, but this is what we help with as well, help to plan as well. Okay, this is your business structure, this is what you do, and this is how you are going to grow. And these are the things that ideally have to be in place. For example, automation, segmentations, the naming convention. And also being organized is crucial for growth. If you don’t find files, don’t go into growth, because you will be in a big trouble. I mean, go into growth, it’s not… Yes, so going to growth, but make sure you hire people to get your stuff organized, because that will cause a lot of problems. So the systems, even it takes energy in the very beginning, a lot of energy. But it’s just like an engine. when you start the car, you have to put it in the first gear, right? And that’s how it starts, it takes energy in the very beginning. But then it brings you so much value in the end. If it’s set up correctly, because it does the work for you, it sends out the messages, the reminders, all your card is declined messages, or you abandoned your card, or the Facebook retargeting is done. And then, oh, you had a call from a client or a prospect and call this person back. So you can send out reminders for your colleagues. And all of these things can make our lives easier, but they require a ton of work in the beginning, or a lot about it saves. Let’s put it, a lot of work in the beginning, and it saves a ton of work for us in the end. And so, systems and organization.

– Systems and organization. Those aren’t generally things that we wake up excited to do, right? Some people do. But those are more usually excited about meeting the client and helping them solve their problem than thinking about our own system and organization. And so, it’s a good reminder. I think, to think if we don’t have our own house ready, it’s very hard for us to be there, to be a great resource.

– Exactly.

– Kitty, do you have a good example of somebody you have helped, and what brought them to you, and how you helped them?

– Well, we have many people coming to us. For example, what I said, “Oh, here is an app, just purchased one.” And then it turns out that it’s not the one they should have purchased for themselves because it doesn’t serve them well. So that’s one of the big helps with things where we see that oh, we can help these businesses that put them into the right direction, and the save them a lot of energy in the long run, because they don’t see that in the beginning. It’s easy to choose something that looks easier, but on the long run, maybe something else will serve them much better. And that’s why it’s very important to understand all these systems, how they work together, and in the long run as well. So this is one of them. And because we build sales funnels, of course, building sales funnels with beautiful design, not just, but very important, the copies, the most important part together with the offer, offer, copy, and then the design. And how the offer and the sales funnels are structured right after each other. These are big things as well, because what we’ve seen for example, there was a client who had a funnel, which turned out not to be a funnel, because it was a one page landing page with one offer on it, which was one product, so it wasn’t even an offer. Because offers are bundles, we’ll give more value, and product is, when you compare product to product, it’s always coming down to the price, right?

– Right?

– So we help them to increase their prices that way to create a proper offer, to put it in a way, in a very nice packaging of a sales funnels, and build all the automations, integrations out. So it’s now a well oiled machine for them. So they just have to drive the traffic into the system. And of course optimizing their system, because we have to see, this is how we know, if a system works and the funnel works well, I mean, the funnel is tested only by being tested.

– Like getting out there. When you talked about optimizing the funnel, what does that mean?

– Well, it means that we use an application to see. And even in the app, the sales funnel app, you can see the numbers. So, how many people see the offer? What is the turn off? So how many people turn away? How many abandoned carts we have? How can we get people back to the place where they left off? Do we have all those automations set up to bring people where they left off the funnel? So all of these things can help to optimizing the funnel. This is the backend part of it. And the front end part of it, just to see, first of all, if the offer is an offer, if a sales funnel is a real sales funnel or is it just a one page. Because that’s shocking how many people think that, “Oh, I have a funnel.” And you use a funnel builder, but you have only just a one page or form, which can be done in any, almost any good CRM system, marketing automation system. And you don’t have to pay for a funnel app if you just want to have a form, and a beautiful form, of course. So these can help in the front end. Looking at the copy, we are not copywriters, but we have copywriters. We can recommend and we work together, so they can have a look at it and fix those things. And at the end the design is the last part, if they are happy with it. But the most important is if the funnel converts. If it converts well, then we are fine. I don’t suggest to make changes to anything. Just one interesting question we got recently that, “Oh, I have systems set up, my CRM, my funnel, everything, it works, but I see this app.” The new shiny object syndrome. And, “Oh, I see everybody’s talking about this. Should I use this or what?” And then, “No.” If whatever you have works, you have to use that and then don’t look at any other things, you are fine. So, we are those kind of people who tell the truth, because in the long run we want to work together with people forever.

– Right.

– Not just like, oh, you earn something out of making a business with someone, and misguided someone to use this xyz app, because that’s more beneficial to you, no. We have to tell if it works for that person or not.

– You know that that’s an incredible gift that you bring to people, because there’s so much misinformation on the internet right now about what digital marketing is. And people have a notion of, “Well, I’ll just put an ad on Facebook, and then magically I’ll have a business. Or I’ll start an account in Instagram, Facebook, do lives, and that will be the beginning of something.” Right?

– Well, yes. And the thing is that what you said at the end that, “That will be the beginning of something.” Yes, It will be the beginning of something, because that’s how you drive traffic to your offer, to your funnel, your lead magnet, which is the entrance to your funnel. And that’s how you bring awareness to your business. And that’s how you engage with people. And that’s how you can nurture people throughout your social media. And you can use the SEO platforms to get more traffic like Pinterest and Google, and your website on a using SEO. So you have to think about the traffic, how you can get eyeballs on you offer. What you have to think about, what you deliver it to them, how you deliver it, and that’s where the backend starts. And at the very end, are they happy? Are they going to refer you? Are you going to offer something for their referrals? If they are not happy, are you going to engage with those people who are not happy and make sure that you understand what’s the problem? And at last, are they going to, the happy customers, are they going to be your advocates? So, are you leveraging the whole marketing ecosystem for your business or not? And usually the answer is no.

– Usually the answer is no, isn’t that amazing. But I do think there is a tremendous amount of misinformation and false promises on the internet. And I think because of that, people become very skeptical about what can really be done. And so, it’s great to really to have your perspective of looking at the whole picture from the beginning to the end and what really goes into making it work, right? Because it is work, it doesn’t just fall out of the air when you do one piece. So, our time is almost over. And I want to just open up for you to think about what are some things that you would really like people to think about and know about marketing before we finish?

– Thank you. So yes, marketing. Marketing is about the customer, not about us. What I see on a sales page most of the time is, we do this, we do that, we do xyz. No, it’s what the benefits are. How you deliver a better life, a better outcome for your clients. Either it’s money, either it’s lifestyle, health, or relationship doesn’t matter, It has to be about them and not about the service provider, it’s a provider itself. I think this is one of the most important parts of marketing. And we build relationships. We engage with people and not with businesses, and not with advertise, and not just a number on the paper. So these are people who we want to engage with. And that’s why it’s very important not just to abundant someone. What I always say, and maybe it’s from somebody else. That when you get to know a person, you get a gift and you open that gift. And from that moment, you are reliable or responsible for that gift. Maybe it’s from the little prince, maybe. And from that moment, you are responsible for that gift, for that person. And that’s true in marketing as well. That these are human beings and we are responsible for whatever they get from us.

– It’s a beautiful perspective, ’cause I think, so often people feel like they’ve just become another commodity, and they don’t feel like there’s that personal connection, that the gift part is missing. And so, it’s lovely to hear that, and hear that perspective from you.

– Thank you.

– So, for those of you who are listening, we’re going to have information about Kitty and her company in the show notes, and also information about how you can contact her. And if you need any further help, just let us know, we’ll be glad to do that. She also has given a download that you can access. Tell us a little bit about what the download is so that the audience knows.

– Well, the download is now, not a download really. Maybe we can add something later. But what the offer is, is a free consultation with me. It’s a 30 minutes free consultation. And you can take up on this anytime. You will have the link to my calendar, so you’re free to book me for a free consultation.

– Super. So those of you who are listening, and there’s things that have just made you stop and think about, “What am I doing? And how am I doing it? Is what I’m doing really effective?” Take advantage of the offer that Kitty has made, and get a 30 minute consultation. And you may have a better understanding of what it is that you need to do. So, Kitty, thank you so much for being with us today, and for sharing what you do, and how you help so many people.

– Thank you very much for the opportunity. And I hope this was valuable for many of us as well. Thank you.

– You are so welcome. And those of you who are listening to Building My Legacy Podcast today, thank you very much for joining us. And be sure to remember to visit our website at builttomorrow.com with the number two. And also all of our social media sites that are builttomorrow.com. So thank you very much to everyone.

– Thank you.