– Welcome, everybody, to today’s Building my Legacy podcast. I have with me today Carl Gould. He has a fascinating background, because he has worked in many different venues. He’s worked with Franklin Covey, Ken Blanchard, for example. So he comes with expertise, and with working with some of the top minds in the country in terms of business and leadership development. So, Carl has written many books for his company, is called “7 Stage Advisors” to help businesses grow to the next level. He has mentored and launched over 5,000 businesses. Let me say that again. He has built and launched over 5,000 businesses. That’s something that many, many people would aspire to. He has helped companies such as Allstate, American Idol, USA Olympic Track, IBM, McGraw Hill, and the US Army. So let me just also, before we start the interview, talk a little bit about your books. You’ve written “Blueprint for Success” with Stephen Covey and Ken Blanchard, “7 Stages of Small Business Success.” And you have also looked at or written the book “Biz Dev Done Right.” So looking at small businesses growing and developing the right way. So Carl, that is rather remarkable. How did you get started?

– Well, it was a while ago, and it was literally by accident. I was studying Accounting and Finance at the University of Delaware. And in my second year of school, I broke my leg pretty badly, and I had to leave school. And after three months in a cast and three months learning to walk again, I needed to make some money. And I was paying my own way at the time. I knew how to do two things from what people would tell me. I knew how to do landscape work, and I knew how to do construction work. So I started a landscape company, a design build landscaping firm. And that was my first entrepreneurial endeavor. I was 18 years old, and I started my first company at 18, and limped my way around for a few years, but grew that business, sold it, and then started a construction company seven years later, and sold that business in 2004. But I started coaching in 1990. I started learning about neurolinguistics programming, and DISC, and axiology, and all sorts of peak performance sciences. I became certified in those. I did coaching for Tony Robbins and Steven, FranklinCovey, and situational leadership, Ken Blanchard, Dale Carnegie leadership, you name it. I went for any certification, then spent all through my ’90s, if there was such a thing as a side hustle back then, I had the original side hustle, coaching. And so, in 1996, I hired a business mentor for my business, love the process. And if there were hashtags back then, it would have been “hang up the hammer,” because I had a business that ran me more than I ran it. Well, what do you know, four years later, I’m ready to hang up the hammer. And I decided I wanted to sell this business and go into coaching full time because I love the process. So I took my entrepreneurial background, plus my results coaching experience, and I became a business coach.

– So, talk a little bit about that. What kind of people do you coach? How do people find you? Let’s start there, and the questions will go on.

– Sure. So I typically work with business owners, or decision makers of some sort that are growth minded and are looking to expand personally as a business leader, but also build a business system below them of some sort. And so, in the coaching world, you tend to work with people who are growth minded, and either not sure how to get there, or but know how to get there, but need a bit of a kick in the behind, or some accountability in order to stay on track.

– Okay, so you work with businesses to do that. Industries that you target, or do you work with any industry?

– Well, it’s a good question because we went out of our way when we started the business to not focus on any one industry. I read this fascinating article that said that 82% of the innovations of the 20th century came from the frontlines of other industries. And so, I thought about that and I said, well, wait a minute. I can be that disruptive innovator, but I’ve got to know all the different sectors, and what’s going on so I can parachute winning best practices from one industry and drop them into another. All of a sudden, voila, brand new. And so, we remained as a generalist for that reason specifically. Now, it’s paid off because what we’ve learned is that it’s a lot harder to be a generalist and always be up to speed on all the different industry sectors, and how to grow those businesses than it is being a specialist. So we go wide, and over the years now, we’ve worked in so many different industries that we actually do have specialties within certain industries, but we’ve gone out of our way to make sure that we have a wide range of experience in different industries.

– So, as you’ve worked with businesses, Carl, what have you found keeps people from really thriving and being successful? Because they all want it, but we know the statistics on who makes it. So what is it that really prevents people?

– Got it. Well, I’m not so convinced that everyone wants it.

– Oh.

– Or wants it badly enough.

– Okay.

– So there’s a line in the sand that is a big differentiator in businesses. And the line in the sand is $1 million of annual revenue. US equivalent, $1 million. And only 4% of businesses ever make it to $1 million or more.

– Right.

– And so we’ve worked with a ton of startups. So I totally get that. I’ve worked with plenty of businesses under a million. But that line is more than just a revenue line. And it’s more than just six figures to seven figures. There’s a level of commitment, do or die commitment, to a business to get to that level and stay above that level. And I’m not saying people under a million aren’t committed, they want to be in business, but they might not necessarily want or need to have a business. It could be a practice. It could be a side hustle. It could be their gig. It could be a lifestyle business. Totally cool. There’s no right or wrong business out there. But a lot of people say, I want it, I want it badly. Growth, I’m going for this. And then when we really show them what it would take, they say, that’s not exactly what I wanted. And actually, what we find people want more is the lifestyle side of the business, as much as they do the overall business itself.

– So it’s the lifestyle they want more than the business, so they’ll sacrifice the business to get the lifestyle, and they sacrifice it ahead of when they’re ready for it. Is that part of what happens?

– Right. Yeah, the personal goals win out every time. And coaching is very much a lifestyle choice. A lot of people that sell their businesses, or the next level of their career, I’ve trained and certified over 7,000 coaches now, and one of the big things that I hear from them is they’ll say, you know what? I had this business, or I had this career, I did the corporate life, or I did the entrepreneurial life. Now I want to give back, I want to help people. It’s rewarding to me to watch the light bulb go on, and they really get it. I’d like to dedicate the next chapter of my life to that. And all of that sage experience, and all the scars and souvenirs from all the battles fought over the years makes them amazing as coaches, and advisors, and as mentors for that last chapter. It’s invaluable.

– It is invaluable when you learn how to put that in perspective and learn how to leverage it, right? So, part of what you do is you train people to really take a look at which parts are useful and add value, and how to use that to help others be successful. Is that correct?

– Sure. Yeah, somebody said it to me once, and I thought this was a great way to think about it is, they become a time machine for you. I’m not your coach. I’m not your guide. I’m not your boss. I’m a time machine. I’m like, wow, what does that mean? Well, I could be like the Ghost of Christmas Future. I can show you what the future would look like. I could show you how to get there. I could show you multiple ways, and then you can come back to the present and decide, what do you want your life to be about now? And whatever path you choose, I can accelerate your arrival at that point, because the mistakes, and the learning, and the trials, and tribulations that I went through, you don’t have to if you don’t want to.

– That’s amazing.

– I’m going wow, that’s a great way to think about it.

– It is a fascinating way to take a look at it, because ideally, that is what it should be, isn’t it?

– Yeah. I mean, helping you compress all that learning, and you get to pick out the parts that you want and the parts that serve you best now.

– Unbelievable. So tell me something else. You talk about, how do you make revenue in 90 days? Five ways to generate revenue in 90 days. How do you do that?

– Well, there’s five very distinct things you can do. And these are all practical. We do these with our clients every single day. You can do them now. First thing you need to do, number one first thing, one of the quickest ways to separate yourself from your competitors and start generating more revenue is to make a bold promise. Make the promise that nobody in your niche has the guts to make. Everybody knows the promises that it will take. So, for example, quick way to do that is, think about the top five complaints about your industry. Top five complaints, whatever your industry is. I was in contracting. It was, you guys don’t start on time. You don’t finish on time. You tell me one price and it turns out to be another. There’s no professional management on the site, and you don’t stand behind your work. All right. So I take those five, and every time I go to present a proposal to you, I’m going to give you two options. One is the regular option, based on the scope of work you asked for. The next one is going to be with those five things, your top five complaints, I will guarantee they will not happen to you, or you get all your money back. However, I’m going to charge a premium for that. And if I’m addressing your top five complaints, not just your first one, not your second, but all five, I’m likely to separate myself from the competition. And I’m also going to guarantee it, which is another separator. So that’s the first thing you want to do. But the second thing you want to do is adjust your messaging. The internet, to me, is like a colony of penguins.

– And why is that?

– Because there’s all you see is black and white, everywhere, and they’re all screaming at the top of their lungs, and they’re all saying the same thing, basically. They’re all saying, date me, date me, find me, find me. Get to the colony, I need to find my mate. And when you look at a colony of penguins, you can’t tell one of them apart from the other. And all social media does now, and the internet is a platform for you to have a voice. But if you’re not saying anything different, and if your messaging is the same old like everyone else, you’re going to be another penguin. So what everyone’s doing right now is they’re saying how great they are. I’m great. Aren’t I great? Here’s my features, advantages, and benefits. Here’s my unique selling proposition. No one’s listening to that anymore. What they are listening to though, is how do you address the problems that are going on, and how do you solve those problems? So you remember those five top complaints that you use for your bold promise, open up a page on your website called “Problems we Solve.” Problems we solve. Then, on that page, take the top five complaints, write a paragraph as to how you solve those problems. Because, here’s the deal. Most people do not own a bucket list business. What I mean by that is, and I actually did for a while. So I know the difference. There was a point in my career where I built log homes. So in my construction days. And so if you build log homes, that’s somebody’s dream purchase. When you’re selling a bucket list item, when somebody thinks of doing business with you, it’s like, oh my God, I’m going to get my dream. I’m going to Hawaii. I’m driving a Tesla. I’m getting a Rolex. This is amazing. Everything about it is amazing. And whoever’s the seller or the owner walks on water. But if I’m just getting in a plane to go just about anywhere, I just go in a regular car, or have a regular watch, or live in a regular house. Then when they think about the service provider or the company, they go to the negatives. Now, think about this. If you’re driving down the road, you put your foot the brake and you hear a grinding sound in your wheels, you know that means new brakes. So think about where your head goes the moment you know you have to get your brakes done. Is it great, I haven’t seen the mechanic in so long, and I’ll be off the grid because they don’t have wifi, and it’s incredible because I get to spend all day, ’cause they never know how to set an appointment. They’re awesome. Or are you like, oh, I got to give up the car. It’s going to cost me a gazillion dollars. They’re going to tell me I need wiper blades or my whole family dies. I mean, it’s going to be a miserable experience. So the moment that you… ’cause I don’t live in a bucket, have a bucket list business, and I think most people that are listening don’t. So if you don’t sell a bucket list item, then all of your prospects are going to the negatives of what it’s like to work with you, not the positives. So change your messaging to address the complaints, not the upsides. You can mention your upsides, but you do have to talk about the problems that you solve, because that’s what’s going to separate you right away. They’re going to say, oh, finally, somebody’s being realistic. The next thing you want to do is increase your price. Your price is your perceived quality. If you’re not sure what I’m talking about, just go stand outside of a mall, have a clipboard in hand. And as people come in, just say, I’m taking a survey. Are you going today to shop for the highest quality products and service or the highest price products and services? They’ll likely say the highest quality. Great. Follow up question, how do you judge quality? Well, one of the top filters is price. So even though people are not going to tell you they’re going to look for the highest price to buy, if they want quality, they’re going to assume high price is high quality. So you need to have a premium offering, otherwise you’ll be perceived as low quality. So your premium offering has to have a premium price. We’ve all done this. You’ve gone to a restaurant, or we’ve gone to a bar and you walk up to the bar, and you look at that thing way up at the top. And you’re like, hey, what’s that bottle way up there? And they’ll say, well, that’s the 1924. Oh, how much is that? Well, that’s $100 an ounce, a shot, or whatever. Ooh, geez. That’s expensive. Does anyone actually buy that thing? Of course not. I only go up there to get the dust off it now and again, but you won’t think we’re a good restaurant unless we have that year or that vintage up there for a high price. I take it down, you think we’re an economy shop. If I have it up there, you think we’re a luxury shop. No one’s got to buy it, but I do have to offer. And then the last thing you do is you joint venture with somebody who has a complimentary or a similar client. So if I do gutter cleaning, and you do dog walking, while we both service residential customers, people who own homes. Our businesses don’t compete with each other. I do the gutter cleaning, you do the dog walking. So you promote my gutter cleaning to your clients, I’ll promote your dog walking to my clients, and just by us cross promoting, and the trust factor that we have with our clientele, you would likely get leads almost overnight.

– Amazing.

– So those are some ways you can do that right away.

– So tell me also, as you do this, you talk about the seven stages of advice, of being an advisor. What are the seven stages?

– Yeah. So, the methodology I wrote in the ’90s, which became pretty widely adopted, is a growth methodology and coaching methodology called the seven stages of business success. And so, what I’ve learned over the years now of working with hundreds of thousands of businesses is that businesses and people, for that matter, go through a very predictable growth trajectory, and if we follow those sequences, and follow that order and syntax, we tend to be very well rewarded. So it’s a bit of a blueprint for growth. And so stage one is the strategic planning stage. That’s when you get all those great ideas out of your head, onto paper, and they’ve got to be compelling and inspiring, or no one’s going to follow you. Boring business, boring results. Inspiring business, inspiring results. Stage two is the specialty stage. That’s where an expert or an authority is born. So there’s where you have to be the smartest person in the room. Like you said, when you became a coach, you got certifications from top flight organizations. Because that helped you build your authority. Now people say, well, what have you done in order to be a coach? Well, I’ve done ICF, and Marshall Goldsmith, and Gallup Organization. And right down the line, that’s an impressive set of credentials. So you have the credentials of an expert in your field. That will allow you to charge a premium, which in turn will allow people to say, wow, she’s really high quality. Now you get really busy. You’re an expert. Everyone wants your attention. So you have to go to stage three. Stage three is the synergy stage. And that’s where a team is born. So you start building your implementation team around you to take some of the volume off of you, but you’re still doing the work every day. We’re working together. So think like an accounting firm or a real estate office. Individuals that are under one similar vision. Then we go to stage four. Stage four is the system stage. And in the system stage, this is when we decide on what kind of business do we want to be? Do we want to be Apple, that’s a closed ecosystem? Or do we want to be Microsoft, that’s an open licensing, open source company? We have to decide that in stage four, because that’s going to determine how we grow. Then we go to stage five. Stage five is the sustainability stage. And this is where the systems take over, and they become the star. And you know you’re a stage five company when you are known for something other than your product or service, the utility of your product or service. So, think about this for a moment. McDonald’s. When was the last time McDonald’s was accused of good food? Been awhile, right? However, they are the greatest real estate story in history. And so, they are known for something other than the utility of their product or service. Starbucks is known for the experience, not the coffee necessarily. And so once you’ve built that experience, that culture, and you’re known for that, beyond that. Zappos is known for their company culture. Oh, yes. And they deliver apparel. And so, at stage five, that’s when you can really start scaling the business, because the processes and the people have taken over, and they’re the stars. No longer about the founder. Now we go to stage six. Stage six is the saleability stage. And this is when an asset is born. So an asset is born because you can really start to sell your business, you can merge with another company, acquire another company, do an IPO, a public offering. You could have strategic alliances, joint ventures with larger companies. And this is when you can maximize the enterprise value and saleability of your business. Not that you have to sell, you can still run your business very well. But a company like Amazon, or Uber, or Facebook that grows by acquisition, that would be like a stage six business. A stage five business would be more like a franchise company, or a chain of stores. And then stage seven is the succession stage. And that’s when a legacy business is born. This is, how do you create a legacy? Well, you create a seven stage legacy, and this is where you get the fire employee number one. That day you’ve been waiting for. That day where somebody else can take over, somebody else understands your vision and can drive the business forward. And now you are ultimately a legacy business, like a Microsoft or a Google. In my book, I write about Curly’s Ice Cream in Riverdale, New Jersey, third generation ice cream store. The building is not even 500 square feet. You have to stand outside, you can’t even go in. It’s one of those old school walk up windows, and it’s on their third generation. And everybody loves the place. Nobody cares who owns it, but the culture, the experience, the ice cream, it’s just tremendous. And I grew up in a town of 1200 people. So the size does not matter.

– Size does not matter. Isn’t that interesting? But it has a culture that is unique that people want.

– Very much so.

– So what are the five deadliest mistakes that people make when they’re launching a business? We’ve got the seven stages. So what mistakes do they make so they get it wrong?

– Well, one of the first things is people don’t understand their client well enough. And so, while they’re proving out their concept, but that’s the first mistake, but at least for the second mistake, which is they discount their pricing. So can you imagine for a moment, Oprah Winfrey saying, I’m thinking of starting a mentoring program, but I’ve never done it before. So I’m going to offer a discount for a while until I get my feet under me and I can figure out what to charge. I wouldn’t imagine she would do that. Here’s what I think she would do. I think she would say, I’ve never done this before. I’ve mentored people, but I’ve never made myself available to the marketplace the way that I’m making myself available today. So I’m starting a mentoring program. And she can charge whatever she wants to charge, and people will pay it. Because she’s got something of value, just like every other launch company does, too. But they don’t charge for their value. And then they get to a place where they’re not making enough profit or enough margin. So when they go to grow a business, they don’t have the money to pay their employees. Third thing is they forget that they’re in the marketing business. Whatever business you think you’re in, oh, I have a security company. No, you don’t. You have a marketing company. I manufacture automobiles. No, you don’t. You have a marketing company. In other words, from the very beginning, you have to be promoting and building a pipeline of qualified leads to sustain your growth goals. And I understand that businesses get on this feast and famine rollercoaster, where I’m really busy, girl, I don’t have time to market. And then, when those projects are over, like, oh my gosh, I’ve got no place. I got to start marketing. Well, if you get on that rollercoaster, it’s hard to get off. So you start marketing, you never stop. It always has priority. And if you’re busy, and you’re working 12 hours a day, you still have to spend 90 minutes a day promoting your business. 90 minutes a day for a lifetime of results. And that’s where people fall down is they say, well, I have a lifestyle business. I’m just going to take it easy, and I’ll make my way to the size business I want. That’s not how you do it. You go full bore marketing, straight up to the point that you’re at. Once you get there, then, and only then, I don’t recommend it. But if you were going to pull back, that’s when you pull back. And then the next mistake they make is they didn’t really think through what it was going to take to be in the business they’re in. And there’s a reason why only one in 15 people are entrepreneurs. There’s a reason why only one in 600 people ever make it to 4 million or above, and one in only 6,000 if they are 10 million and above. It is the most exhausting, energy requiring endeavor you can do in your life. And if you love it, and you’re one of those, you’re one in 15, you’re going to do just fine. But if you’re one of those 14 out of 15, that’s why we always hear these statistics. 90% of businesses are out of business within five years, because 14 out of the 15 start and they’re like, I had no idea what I was getting myself into. So before you start, you’ve got to decide, one, can you manage the risk? Because it’s life without a net. And if life without a net does not excite you, give you energy, or make you want to like, ooh, really? Take that net away. I’m in. If that’s not your response when I say life outside of the net, there’s nothing wrong with it. Go get a job. If you’re saying, oh, you know what? I’m not quite employment material anymore, but I’m not this life without a net guy, then go buy a franchise. Go purchase a franchise location where there’s an established system, it’s proven, and there’s a business model you follow. The franchising world is that haven for people who aren’t quite ready for the full entrepreneurial ride, but are no longer employable. They’ve outgrown that part of their life. And the last mistake that they make is they try to go solo. I call it the jet ski principle. So when you’re on a jet ski or a wave runner, they’ve got that little cord that attaches to you on that lanyard, and it’s attached to the ignition. Because if you fall off or you get off, guess what happens? The jet ski slows down, and then it just circles. And it goes nowhere. Well, that’s what happens when you try this out by yourself. At some point, you’re going to have to take your hands off the wheel to go on vacation, go to bed. And what happens when that happens? You just spin in a circle, and you don’t go anywhere. So they don’t always build the team, they don’t always think about building the system below them. They just think about maybe being the owner operator. So those are some of the main mistakes that they make.

– It’s so hard, I think, for a entrepreneur, the solopreneur, to move from that solo mentality to the people mentality, because that stage from startup to 1 million, about, you’re running so fast, wearing every hat, you’re like the bobble head doll. You’re just going to another hat, and then you come back as fast as you can, and you’re just running to catch a ball before they drop. But that’s part of being small and growing. And then when you get to the point where you start building a team, letting go, and trusting, it becomes quite difficult, doesn’t it?

– Yeah, it really does. It’s just a different animal. And most entrepreneurs are mavericks. They’re independent thinkers. They’re free souls, and they see things bigger, and better, and different out in the world, and they want to change the world. When that strength is overdone, it becomes a weakness, and they’ll oftentimes break their own rules. They want to stick it to the man, but then they realized they’re the man or woman, and by rebelling, they’re rebelling against themselves.

– So true. So our time’s almost up. And there’s one question I want to really ask you before we conclude, and that is, what will be your legacy, Carl?

– Well, that’s a great question. What I wanted to be when I became a coach, I wanted it to be my life’s work. And at the time, the average coach made $23,000 a year. And I was married with kids, living in New Jersey, and I had a house. You can’t lower your expenses enough to live on that. And so, I was committed to making this work. I had to make enough money so I could have a life, and a home, and kids, and provide, and all that. But what that turned into was my passion to help people find the business of their dreams. Because when I told people in 1996 I wanted to be a coach, they said to me like, oh, really? What sport? The industry didn’t exist the way it does today. The idea that you were going to be a full-time coach, this is going to be your job forever, that was unheard of. And no one knew what we were talking about. Like I said, oh, I want to be a coach. Like, what, what are you talking about? So I fell in love with an industry that was in its infancy, and a job that didn’t exist yet. And so, I want my legacy to be that, whatever job you want, whatever business you want, whether it exists or not, or anyone knows about it or not, I want to be able to have the tools, or provide the education, or help people find that for themselves, because there are people that helped me find it for myself. So I want to help those. And that’s what the seven stages is all about. It is a blueprint for how to get the business of your dreams, whether it exists or there’s a name for it, or not.

– Wonderful. What have we omitted, Carl, that the audience needs to know?

– Well, the audience needs to know that the greatest personality trait for a successful entrepreneur’s resilience. But I can tell you from experience, and working with hundreds of thousands of people, at this point, that your greatest asset to being successful will be hustle. You hustle, you will win. We wrote “Biz Dev Done Right” because we saw so many people quitting right before the finish line. If they just hustled, kept their nose down and just kept working, you will win the war of attrition, because nine out of 10 people are going to quit, and if you keep on hustling, you’ll be the one.

– You’ll be the one. Well, what a great note to end on. Carl, thank you so much for being on Building my Legacy podcast today. And for those of you who are listening to Building my Legacy podcast, please remember to visit our website at wwwbuildtomorrow.com. And we will have information about Carl in the show notes, his books for you, so you know how to get them. Usually on Amazon. Amazon, I’ve checked, does carry them. And we’ll have other information about Carl, so you can get ahold of him should you want to do so. Carl, thank you so much for being with us.

– Thank you for having me. I appreciate it.

– You are welcome.