– Welcome everybody to today’s “Building My Legacy Podcast.” I have with me today Jeremy Brown. Jeremy is founder of Throne Publishing. They have published over 400 books. He has been an entrepreneur, so had his own business, businesses actually in plural, and for the last 13 years has been in the publishing business of books and curriculum. And he has a lot of wonderful insights into the how to publish a book, why you wanna publish a book, and what that journey really looks like and it’s importance in the entrepreneur’s life. But Jeremy, let’s start with, how did you get started on this journey of publishing, why publishing?

– That’s a great question, and I just wanna say thank you, Lois, for letting me come on. I really appreciate you and this podcast. So I wanna encourage anybody listening to this. If you haven’t, there’s 190 some plus other podcasts out there and I think this is a great conversation because the more we’re thinking about how are my actions today gonna impact long-term, it shapes my mindset and it changes how I’m behaving in my day-to-day. So I just believe in this conversation that you’re having, Lois, and you. So, you know, guys, I encourage you to subscribe. There’s a lot of content there and it’s good one to kind of put on repeat and listen to. So thank you for letting me come on, Lois.

– Thank you.

– And how I got into publishing was really accidental. I was trying to solve my own problem. I was a sales coach and I wanted to write a book because I’m in my mid 20s and I was competing against other consulting companies that had more years in business than I’d been alive on the planet. So I wanted to build my authority and said, you know, I’m in my early 20s, I really owe it to the world to write a book. With all my experience and my wisdom, and I’m obviously being very sarcastic, but I wanted to write a book and I thought about it differently. I wanted it to be a marketing tool for me. So I went to a coffee shop and said, I’m gonna write my book, and I didn’t really plan things back then much at all. So when I sat down to write, I realized like I’ve got a problem, I can’t write. I couldn’t transfer my energy into my fingertips. And I was like, you know what, I can talk about this stuff all day but when it comes to typing this out, this is not gonna work for me, my fingers can’t keep up. So I just solved the problem. I said, you know what, I’m gonna make the outline and I knew if I asked myself powerful questions I’ll come up with powerful answers. So I arranged a very strategic interview with myself where as I answered the questions, my answers became the book. And that’s what I did, and I thought this was probably what everybody does. And so I did that and I got it written in about a weekend and published it. And then my little consulting company went from regional to I had clients in over 20 countries in under a year. And it changed my life in a number of ways. It was a total game changer for me. And a very bad book, very poorly done in every sense of the words, first thing I ever did. I went to a printer in town here, and a guy who had one eye named Joe taught me how to get a book done. And rest his soul, he’s no longer with us, but I couldn’t have thought of it any better, but great guy. But here’s what happened is all these results happened in my life and people said, how did you do that? They probably thought like, how is this kid even, this kid’s a kid, how is this even impossible? But they said, what happened in your business, how did you do it, and I said, well, I wrote this book. And they’re like, well, how did you write it? Because back then it was kind of difficult to get a book published, it was not like it is today. This is 15 years ago now, maybe, something like that ’06, ’07. And I said, well, I just kind of interviewed myself and I did this and that and then I just kind of went down the thing and they go, oh, well, would you do that for us? And I thought, that’s when my little entrepreneurial light bulb went. I said, if I can interview successful people about why they’re successful, I’ll get my education I want, ’cause I was a single dad, I was too broke to go back to school. And if I can make money doing this, this would be a great business for my 20s. And as I did it, I got into it and I started writing people’s books and I found that there’s a big market for this, and I loved it. I got to interview people, I got to get their book written for them, and I got to see what happens in their life when they publish their own book with the right strategy in mind, and that’s what kind of got me into the whole thing. But originally Lois, I just wanted to solve my own problem.

– Amazing, isn’t it amazing how solving a problem, even if it’s just for ourselves, is often the beginning. Jeremy, you talk about the burn process. What’s the burn process? It’s something that you use.

– Yeah, thank you, Lois. And I think that the more we try to do something, I see myself as a craftsman when I’m working in my business and not on it, when I’m in it, I’m a craftsman. And I wanna get 1% better every day with what I’m doing. And I kept doing that and we had a moment in time where we had a big problem in our business. It was gonna ruin our business. And the problem was is we were writing books twice and getting paid once. So that wasn’t working, right?

– So just, you know, why are you writing a book twice?

– Great question, here’s what was happening is when I write a book with somebody, what we do is we interview them, they talk and I have a writer in the room that’s capturing their words right in the room and a book gets written in a day. Somebody wrote a book sitting right there yesterday in a day. They were talking, the writer was on Zoom, book’s done. So we are doing that. The better we got at interviewing somebody, Lois, the more transformational it was for that person who was being interviewed. And as they’re talking, we started to notice there is transformation happening right in front of us as they’re doing this. Now, that became a problem because what would happen is we even had it timed. We knew between the hours of one o’clock and three o’clock in the afternoon, they would have this aha moment, in the beginning we called it the turning of the tides, and something would happen and then it would trigger a whole effect of new content coming out of them. We can almost time it. And that was good. Yeah, it was great because my wife and I, we love seeing people transform their lives. That’s why we’re in the business. If we’re just in it to publish books, we would have quit then because I’m like, yeah, their lives are changing, but the math doesn’t work, this is bad. But we sat down for two days, my wife and I, and we had six other people in the room with us, and we went through the whole process from front to back, got it out of her head, got it on paper. And it was a big, long white board all the way across a big, long room and we had everything written out and there was one little dot that said, this is where I make the outline. And my wife goes, what do you do there? You people come in and they tell you all this stuff, you go into a room for four hours and you come out, there’s a whole book outline that’s 30 pages long that nobody knows how it got written and everybody loves it, how do you do that? And we began to reverse engineer what I very naturally did on my own, and this is what we do with a lot of our authors. We reverse engineered something that was naturally happening. We created the burn process out of that. The burn process is if we throw a bunch of materials into a fire, only the things of lasting value withstand the flames. You’re gonna have diamonds, gold and steel. We liken that to when somebody comes in and they’re like, hey, I’ve got a story, I’ve got ideas and content. Where do I begin, what goes in the book, what should I put out, how do I know where my very best stuff is? We take all their ideas, all of their content, their whole life story and we burn it. We throw all the materials into a fire so that the things of lasting value can withstand the flames. The diamonds that display beauty through testimony, the steel that gives strength, and the gold that is valuable to other people. And that’s a process we run everybody’s books through to find their very best. ’cause whether you’re in business, whether you’re writing a book, you wanna bring your very best to the table. And everybody is made that you have things that you know how to do that you think everybody could probably do, or they’re normal and natural to you, but they’re not normal and natural. They’re very distinct. No man or woman has taught you these things, but you can do them, you know them. And there’s a reason for that. But we’ve got to take the time to look at it and process it and even reverse engineer it and we burn it. And that’s how we find people’s very best stories and very best content.

– Okay, so I’m visual. So I see this basket of ideas going literally into a fire. And then how, I mean, ideas aren’t like wood and paper. So how do the best ones bang come out? What is that fire really? What’s that process of the fire, and how does that generate the best ideas?

– That’s a great question, Lois. You’re a fantastic interviewer. There’s a process to it, there’s the process and then there’s an experience. So the experience is this. Somebody comes with me for a day and for one day I’m one-on-one with them, I hear their entire life story and all of their ideas. We throw it all on the table. I have to hear their life story even if their book is not about their life story, ’cause there’s so many things that we can extract from their life that they think, yeah, I went and did this over here, and I’ll give you an example in a second, that they think is normal and natural, not a big deal. It’s actually one of God’s things in their life that he says, here’s this thing I gave you and you can use this experience to teach, to minister, to talk to other people in a book. And so I’ll give you an example, but we hear everything. And it’s a life-changing thing for people because their clarity goes from like a level six to a level nine because they process their whole life out. And a lot of formation happens and with their book. So there’s the experience. They’re sitting down, they’re heard, all their ideas are on a table. If I just show you this real quick ’cause I know you’re visual in my office here. I’ll turn this a little bit. I’ve got these three white boards over here and we fill those whiteboards up. We mess around with them, we’ve got a little place we’re sitting here. That’s the experience. The process is this. Now we got to categorize it, we have to look at it. We have to find the very best. Burn is an acronym. So the B-U-R-N, every story has the B, the beginning. There’s a beginning to it. And there’s either a loss or a leap. A loss is, this happened to me and I didn’t want it or ask for it but here it is, and there’s a loss. It’s a new beginning. Or I have a leap, I see there’s a mountain, I’m gonna a climb it. There’s a beginning there. The U is urgency. That now that there’s been this new beginning, I must do something about it. And I act on a volition, I choose to, or I act out of necessity. I don’t know where I’m going but I can’t stay here type of a moment. Those are the defining moments of our life, those are where good books reach their readers at. The U is urgency, and then we move into R which is refine. You then get refined in three ways. There are street lessons, lessons you learn in the streets through experience. There’s street skills, skills you develop in the streets, not by necessarily going to a classroom because you just had to figure it out. And then there’s divine appointments, the right person at the right time with the right word. And as you look back, you may not have realized it in the moment, but you say, had I not run into that person, I don’t know what I would’ve done. And then the N is for newness. Newness is now the conclusion, the finale of it. How does the story end? It might have ended the way I want it to, it might have been not the ending that I wanted, but there’s finality and there’s fullness of this experience. So we look for full, complete moments and experiences from somebody’s lives that can be valuable and usable to other people. And we make that into a visual process for them and they can see their life laid out in front of them. Even you, as you’re listening right now, if you think about this, you can start by just going, where have there been some new beginnings in my life? Both expected and unexpected. There’s a lot to that and how that will flesh out. And as we look at those experiences that we get, business models come from them, new books come from them, problems get solved and they can become whatever they want. But we miss a lot when we don’t look at our life in a strategic way. And we dangle the carrot of doing a book, but really I wanna get into people’s lives with them and have them look at it to go, man, there’s something bigger at work in my life than just me, because all this stuff lined up. I had an atheist in Australia do this and he said, you know what, it’s like somebody planned all this.

– Oh, interesting.

– And I was like, well, that’s this, it forces us to have to ask bigger questions, but you find your very best of what you can bring to offer to other people. It’s about, at the end of the day whatever comes through that fire, I can offer to somebody else of value.

– Wow, okay, so let me go back through your process. So you start by laying out the person’s life, a day of just plain talking about my life and my experiences, right? And then from that, you have the things that come through the fire, the burn, that have value. And is it at that point then that you begin to write the book?

– Yeah, so once we go through, we talk about somebody’s full life and then we’re able to then talk about all their book ideas. So we put those two up against each other. And out of that, when they’re talking about their life, they come to the point of, well, here’s what brought me to here today. Because when we get an idea, we say like, well, I feel like I’m supposed to do this over here and it’s in the future. We miss what’s already around us. And so when somebody walks through their whole life, then they realize like, oh my gosh, I have all these other things I didn’t realize, these assets I have to bring to the table. And then so we go through all of their book ideas. Their audience, their thesis, their main idea, their content, that’s at the end of the day, then they create what we call a book blueprint. You got a whole book, chapter by chapter breakdown, front to back, they’re usually like 30 to 40 pages in length, super detailed. Once that’s there, somebody has a blueprint. So if anybody’s writing a book, you have to have a blueprint. If you have one and it’s detailed, it’ll save you 10,000, at least in the publishing and writing process. When you have a blueprint, it has the chapter by chapter breakdown, and then you know, who do I need on my team? What’s the kind of writer, designer, editor that I need? You can assemble the team, and when you’ve got the team, you can go, team, here’s the blueprint, this is my vision. And you can enroll your team in the vision. If there’s no vision, you cannot enroll them. It’s just if like me and you were trying to build a building and we had all the workers, we had all the resources and the parts, the material, but we had no blueprint, it’s just gonna be chaos every day on the job site. And we’re not gonna get the product we want, same thing with a book. You got the blueprint, and then you, the author, are the leader of your project. You can enroll your people and get them bought into the vision and you’ve got a path for execution after that point, then you begin writing. I always say, writers should go through this burn process or something to it’s equivalent prior to writing because it processes so many things out. You wanna process first and write second, because if you process while you write, what you’ll say in 10 pages could have been said in two. It is easy to write a 400-page book. It’s very hard to write a 100-page book. So this process, go ahead.

– What’s the average length of books that you help author?

– I like to keep them under 150 pages. My true sweet spot where I really like them to be as like 125. It can be read in under three hours and it leaves the reader going, I got so much value from this, what else do they have? That’s what you want them to say. I got value, this is incredible, what’s next? What else do these guys have? That’s where we wanna get them to. So we can accomplish that. Now, if that same a 125 book, if we don’t do the burn process, it’ll probably be a 250-page book. And it’s one of those where the readers get halfway through or two chapters through, or some of them who are really smart read the first and the last chapter and that’s it. Where this one, when you time it out, the blueprint includes every chapter has a goal, has a mission statement, has a key takeaway, has a transition. They all tie together because it keeps me as the reader winning and turning pages ’cause I’m getting value on every page of the book. There’s no wasted words. And then they’ll act when they’re done reading it. They will put your stuff into action, they’ll seek you out, they’ll do whatever you want them to do or whatever you’re calling them to do at the end of the book.

– Fascinating, I mean, you’re right. One of the hardest things as a person writing is knowing what to leave out, right? And, or making a story lengthy that could be told in a very short period of time if it was done carefully, artfully.

– Yes, and we even use that burn process as a guide of how to tell stories. It has a beginning, the character reach a point of urgency, they go through a refinement period of the process, and then there’s a conclusion to it. And it helps us sum up those stories because I could ask an author, they could give me a bunch of backstory and then they get into the process where as opposed to going, bring me into the moment when this began, the genesis moment, and it brings me the reader right in there with them. And it saves us four or five pages of buildup that isn’t super necessary. But I’ll say this to you, you got to go through burn and you got to do it with a team. Nothing great happens, you know this better than anybody, Lois, nothing great happens without a team. In all the work you do with businesses and talking to the CEOs and non-profits and everything, you got to have a team. So when authors try to do it all on their own, it’s very overwhelming. It certainly is not the quality that it could have been as if they were to enroll a team. And usually they can’t enroll a team because they don’t have that blueprint. So they bring on a cover designer. And then it ends up being like, I just can’t, this designer is just not getting my vision, it’s not making it work. Or I gave it to this editor and it came back and now it doesn’t even sound like me. Now I’m really like frustrated, you know what I mean? They’re not enrolling them. The authors are the keeper of the vision. And with the blueprint, you can say, read this blueprint and then go to page seven, I’m gonna call you at our meeting and we’re gonna start right there. And they love that clarity. And then you can enroll your people. And the best part is, is they will then be, that you’re gonna be their number one client and they’re gonna keep working with you in the future. So you’ve got a team for life. We have contractors and talent we’ve had for, you know, Throne’s 10 years old, we’ve had them since the very beginning in Throne. I’m very proud of that because we create a lot of that clarity, and then we let them just run with it. Now, here’s what you know we want, bring your best to the table for us, and then we just let them do that.

– So who does the writing actually?

– So we have a combination. We have people who their authors write it themselves. And that’s where we have a course online, we have writing coaches and all that. Majority of our people, they’re sitting down with an interviewer and a writer who are extracting their content from them and capturing that in real time. So there’s always a ghost writer, and there’s an interviewer. And is very key in our process, because the interviewer’s job, we have professional interviewers whose job it is to extract the very best content. So even that is part of the burn too, because we’ve done that the first piece where we’re processing it all. Now they’re processing it with a writer and an interviewer who’s gonna go, hey, wait a minute, Lois, go back here, you just said something huge, and we unpack that more. And it’s a process of pulling the very best out of you and authors at the end of it are going, this book’s gonna be better than I thought. Because we’re seeing things, you can’t see the picture when you’re in the frame. So you’re bringing other people in who know your vision ’cause they see the blueprint and they go, let’s bring the very best because there’s always more, always more.

– Amazing, there is always more. So tell me something else. You talk about story forging. Talk a little bit about that ’cause a good book has to have stories, right?

– Yeah, and the story forging has to do with that burn process and then bringing on people to just really continue to craft and mold your own personal narrative. So here’s an example. We really, especially as business professionals, if I’m a CEO, I’m gonna write a book. And for so many years, we were pretty transactional in content meaning, I’ll give you an example. Jeana Goosmann, phenomenal lawyer. One of the fastest, she was just like 2021 Entrepreneurial Woman of the Year. Credible woman, very accomplished. And she was gonna write a book about here’s my legal strategy ’cause she’s fantastic at it, built a huge business. Run it through burn, we noticed there was a story in her life of her dad. And her dad, he was a very successful entrepreneur too. And when Jeana was just a girl, he would put on the snakeskin boots and you would go, he’d sit Jean on his lap and he’d go, daddy is gonna put on his big deal boots today ’cause daddy’s gonna go do a big deal. And so instead of just having the chapter that talks about, here’s how we do big deals at Goosmann Law Firm, it was big deal boots. And she told the story of her dad and she told the story of how her dad put her on his knee and the big deal boots. And then it segued into here’s how we do big deals in our law firm. Different, totally different deal. That is story forging. We’re not just telling a story to tell it, we’re telling a story that’s relevant, it’s concise, it’s impactful, directly tied to something we wanna teach. And I’ve told Gina story for so many times now because it’s such a great example. it’s in her keynote presentation now, she gets to talk about her dad, her heritage. And now I get she knows what she’s doing, but I like her now too. I really like her, I trust her, she draws everybody in, people love it. That story forging.

– Got it, okay. So you’re right, it’s doing something differently with the story in order to really have it set the stage for what it is that you’re wanting to talk about. And I think too many times we just tell stories for the sake of telling stories because we’re told that that’s what we’re supposed to do, right?

– Yep, exactly. And then we might use one from somebody else’s life or a vignette that’s very popular. And like, you know, if I use somebody else’s story or some other vignette that’s popular, it’ll be good. But if I use something from my own life that shows my heart, that shows who I am and it’s attached to the content I wanna teach, I’ve gone from good story to a powerful story. That power causes action. Without power there’s no action. So the story told from my life in a concise way that’s all about offering this content to somebody else is power versus just being a good story.

– Got it, got it. So along with that, Jeremy, people write and they publish for a reason, right? They wanna be known, they want their business to grow. So how to become an authority as a result of your writing? Because there are a lot of books that don’t go anywhere.

– A lot of books that don’t go anywhere. And I think it is, I don’t wanna beat the drum too hard on this, but it’s because people don’t sit down with a process like we’re talking about. And you can do this with a best friend, with a spouse, with somebody willing to sit down and bear witness to your story. And somebody who is skilled in sifting through your ideas to say, yeah, you know what, Lois, this one, I know you love it but it’s not relevant to what you’re trying to do here. Save that for the podcast, save that for the blog. And if we’re willing to do that, we’re gonna create books that are gonna display our unique ability and our unique experiences. You can write a book, Lois, that absolutely nobody can compete with. That nobody has ever heard before because nobody has walked your walk and gleaned from it the street lessons and the street skills that you have. If that can be put in the book, you’re the authority, nobody can take from your life. Nobody’s gonna steal Jeana’s story of big deal boots.

– That’s true

– How could they? Can’t do it. And that’s got a lot of traction to it now, people love that. And so if you’re totally authentic and you honor your own narrative of your life, and you first honor that and look at that and go, you know what, what’s from here that I can use to teach, instead of just going straight into the teaching. How can I use some vignettes here? That’s how you can become the authority because it’s you’re talking about something from your own life and not just to talk about yourself to talk about yourself, but in order to teach and to offer something you went through to somebody else. But then you position your book, and there’s a lot of strategies you can use, but one of the things we do is like say, for example, if you’re wanting to network with somebody, you can and very tactical now. I just send my book with a handwritten note in the mail to that person and I call them with a phone call. And I have always been very confident in my ability to pretty much open any door we want to with that kind of a strategy and we might add some other things to it. But if I use my book with a handwritten note, call up with a phone call, I’m gonna open so many more doors which create relationships, opportunities and everything. So there’s a lot of ways you can build authority with a book. Those are a couple of small ways, but really there’s nothing’s gonna change for a very long time from the sense that if you wrote the book on it, you’re the expert on it. And it’s a powerful tool of persuasion when you’re trying to develop a business and expand your network.

– So part of that, you’re right, it becomes you own it, you own that space. And in the process of owning space, you do become the authority. Sales then, so how do you help people then take that very precious piece, it’s authentic, it’s real, it’s been whittled down to the core, the most important concepts. How do you take that then and help them really get it out there so that it is on Amazon, it is noticed and people buy it?

– Yeah, I mean, there’s really some core launching strategies. And I think for every author, they need to first ask themselves, what do I wanna get out of this launch? It’s not always just about selling books. Some people are saying I really actually wanna grow my business, or I wanna grow my network, or I wanna get on podcasts or build influencer relationships, and I wanna sell a lot of books. So there’s like five core launching strategies. I hope I can remember off the top of my head. So bear with me if I can’t, but I really wanna give these to people. Here’s what we teach people to do, number one, you should do an in-person launch. This is just as much for the author as for everybody else. You should always do an in-person launch. Invite all your clients, past clients, prospective clients, family, friends, have an in-person launch, make it fun, make it a thing. Then you do-

– Like an event is what you’re saying, okay.

– Yep, exactly.

– Then do an Amazon bestseller launch. Now, there are ways Amazon works with algorithms and systems. So if you can know the system and the algorithm, you can have a bestseller Amazon launch. We’ve done 400 plus books, 95% of them plus, you know, I’m making that number up ’cause I only can think of like one or two that didn’t get some kind of an Amazon bestseller ranking. So there’s a system to that. You can do it really effectively knowing that Amazon tracks its sales in real time. So every hour they’re updating their bestseller lists. So if you push and you let your core network know at nine o’clock next Thursday, please go order my book with this Amazon link. There’s ways you can drive a lot of volumes to those sales in a short period of time and create some traction. And then those algorithms will kick in for you and try to sell your book for you as well. So there’s the Amazon launch. Then there’s the influencer launch where you do influencer campaigns. You get other people, influencers, talking about and recommending your book to other people all on the same day. The influencer campaigns, then we do summits. Summits are where you invite multiple speakers like yourself that are complimentary to the book. You bring them on a summit, you interview them, it’s a day long event. All of the speakers that you’re interviewing are also emailing their lists and you’re encouraging people to buy your book at two specific times during that day, there’s call to action sections. So let me go back on my head, there’s Amazon, there’s the in-person, there’s the influencer, there’s the summit, and there’s one more, and then there’s the launch team. Okay, I was able to remember them. There’s the launch team where you gather a group of people and you’re asking them to buy into the ask of, for an exchange of something exclusive, you’re gonna give them exclusive content, behind the scene stuff. They’re gonna promote your book in a very specific way on the launch date. And so you create a team around you and you equip them with the right photos and copy and everything to do that so that on launch day, you’ve got a bunch of other people, they’re maybe not big influencers, but you try to get 50, a 100, 200 people that are all bought in to this vision, this plan of we’re all gonna share this book, we’re gonna support this author on the same day.

– Wow.

– Those are the launch strategies. There’s a lot of other, here’s what I wanna challenge authors to think of. There’s so many more other benefits to publishing a book than selling the book. That’s like the cherry on top. That’s very little revenue. I don’t want authors to think about how to create $20 transactions as much as I wanna say, how can we use your book to create 20, 40, $60,000 transactions by promoting your existing business using the book? That’s the long tail. A book done well it should be able to be used for 15, 20 years. And the most important part is if you do a book well, you’re gonna get an ROI today. But your kid’s kid’s kids will read that book and be impacted by it. That’s the only marketing tool, that you can get that ROI today, but your great, great, great grandkids will read it and go, man, grandma grandma Lois, she was crazy. Like what, wow, look at all this thing she did, look at how she thought, what does that mean about me? And that’s the core question that you will get them to ask and you’re passing down identity to them in a world that is constantly battling for their identity to tell them who they are. You can play a role on that and share with them, this is how we are in our family.

– On that note, Jeremy, what a wonderful note to end on. But before we close, what have we missed that we should have talked about?

– Wow, that’s a great question. I think that last thing. We should have talked about that more, but I know that’s what you’re all about. Is we can live today, we can, you know, behave in such a way, treat other people in such a way, market our business in such a way that we will be proud of to share that story of 20, 30, 40 years from now. I always look at if I’m in a tough situation, I say, the story is being told right now, I’m gonna tell this story. If I was to tell this story in 40 years, in 30 years, 20 years, how would I wanna tell it? And then I behave in such a way that I would wanna tell the story of 20 years from now. And that’s why I love what you’re doing with this podcast and this whole conversation, is you’re getting us to think longterm, which is what solves a lot of problems in our lives and creates good, healthy people and healthy businesses.

– Healthy businesses and healthy people. Isn’t that what we really want to strive for? Jeremy, thank you so much for your time today and for being on “Building My Legacy Podcast.”

– Hey, it’s my pleasure. I’m so happy to be here, Lois. I really appreciate you and what you’re up to, and I wanna encourage people again like, get this subscribed to it if you like it, write a review on iTunes, share this with your friends. It’s a great podcast, look in the very back episodes too. I saw some pretty good, I’m gonna call them oldies way back in the beginning. Check those ones out too, but this is a great podcast, I wanna encourage people to subscribe.

– Thank you so much. And for those of you who are listening today, we will have information about Jeremy in the show notes. And so please, please visit him and his website, especially if you’re thinking about a book right now, because what an opportunity to have a great resource. So thank you all for listening and being with us today on “Building My Legacy Podcast.”