– Welcome everybody to today’s podcast for “Building my Legacy.” I have with me today Hailey Rowe. She is a marketing and sales strategist. She has come out of the health and wellness arena and has moved into looking at what is really necessary for digital marketing and marketing when you’re trying to get a concept, a product out there. And so many of us are busy busy doing work, right? We’re trying to get work produced and marketing and digital marketing is one of those extra things that we go, “Oh really? “I have to know that too?” And so Hailey is here today to tell us a little bit about herself and what it is that she does. So Hailey, it’s yours.

– Thank you. Well, I appreciate you for having me and I totally hear you that marketing in and of itself can be overwhelming and it can also be a full-time job if you let it be. When you’re trying to learn everything and implement for your launches. So what I do is I work with online entrepreneurs on growing their business by getting more traffic on it. Being able to have a conversion process or sales process set up, and being able to make sure they’re consistent in their online presence and visibility. So, I mainly have worked a lot with wellness professionals, wellness companies, coaches, but the principles of marketing and sales are pretty much the same for many different industries and types of business. So yeah I’m excited to talk about it.

– So what do you find are the biggest challenges that people have when they move into this arena?

– Yeah, I think one of the biggest issues that I see is lack of clarity and overthinking things. So when it comes to your offer, whatever it is you’re tying to promote online, making sure before you plan out a launch, or before you start something, that you’re clear on what am I actually trying to do? Where am I trying to send people to begin their sales conversion process? So for many, and then that’s where people get overwhelmed because there are so many options. You can send them to a webinar, you could send them to an email funnel, you could do a call with them, it just depends on what your business is and what the best, warmest, way to warm somebody up will be for you. So part of what I try to do with my clients is number one, get clear on who are you trying to target for this and where do they hang out online? Number two, what are their urgent struggles, goals, needs, problems that your offer sells because one of the huge, another side mistake that I see is people talk about the features of their offer more than their benefits of their offer, and how it changes somebody’s life. So making sure you’re leading with the benefits this thing an provide is key, and then once you know that, what’s gonna be your delivery system for getting this message out, and there could be more than one way of doing that. You can be on podcast, you can have a masterclass et cetera, but you gotta start with something and just get the ball rolling with that. And then what systems do you need to create to be able to execute your marketing plan and what does that look like, what are the steps? So I would say the biggest mistake is just to recap, would be lack od clarity on those things, number one. And number two, really going over the features more than the benefits. And then number three would be not having a clear converting place to send people. I personally and I don’t know what your audience, it will be different for their business model, but I personally love connecting with people on discovery calls for what I do because it’s something where we have to talk, I get to know their goals, I’m able to understand what they need, and that’s the best converting way for me personally, but it will be different, for some people can do really well with webinars, or email funnel, things like that.

– So Hailey, entrepreneur wears many hats, right? They’re busy making a business grow, they’re busy putting all the foundation pieces in place, they’re just plain busy. So is what you’re talking about something one person can actually do while they’re wearing all these hats, what are you finding?

– That’s a really good question, and it depends on how much, it depends. Because I know a lot of people who can’t necessarily outsource their marketing, or have a coach or have a consultant, or pay for marketing like ads and things like that in the beginning of their business and they do have to learn it, and they do have to wear all the hats, and I think you can certainly do that, it’s just you have to know that that’s a sprint phase in your business and it is gonna take your attention away from actually doing the thing that you do, whether that’s coaching clients, or speaking with your customers et cetera. So I do think it’s possible to do your own marketing, but at the same time even just starting and having one consultant or person who can guide you or teach you if you’re gonna plan on doing it yourself, can be really really helpful. And if you wanna outsource it, what I would say to that is make sure when you’re gonna pay for something like you’re gonna outsource either ads or marketing agency or whatever, that you’re at least clear on what are the expectations like, what’re the outcomes you want from the launch, and then also that you at least have a little bit of understanding of how marketing works, so that you don’t go blindly in to something and you’re not able to like, you don’t wanna be in a place where you are out of control completely. Like you don’t know how to check somebody’s work if that makes sense, like I learned marketing purposely because if I was gonna outsource it, I wanna know if somebody’s doing their job, you know what I mean? So I think that that’s important to have at least a foundational understanding of it if you are a business owner.

– Got it. So Hailey, when you work with somebody, or somebody’s who’s an entrepreneur, looking at beginning the whole process, what’s the period of time that you find is the warming up phase, the phase that you’re building and growing so you actually can make some revenue? What’s the time frame, how do you work with people so that they can have success?

– So this comes down to how clear and consistent you are. So if you’re clear on your niche and you’re already have that figured out, you can start tomorrow getting in front of them, either through podcast pitching, through Instagram hashtags, through directly connecting with them in Facebook groups or that way, so you can kind of define how you want the speed to go, but that said, it’s also a longer, it takes touch points for somebody to warm up to be ready to buy from you. So the statistics are it can be anywhere from eight, depending on what, if it’s a high ticket, higher ticket product, or it’s not something that’s super cheap, it could take eight to 17 touch points for somebody to really like get to know you’ll be ready, so they need to see you that many times and they need to hear your message consistently that many times perhaps. So my suggestion would be the sooner you can at least start showing up in front of your audience on social media, the better and but at the same time, if you are directly connecting with people, like sending a welcome message. What I mean by that is any time you get a new follower, saying thanks for the follow, I’d love to hear more about you and building those connections, it can go faster because you’re directly involved, you’re building trust faster, and I’ve had clients who have gotten clients within the first three weeks of working with me just by connecting with people. So I think it depends. If you want it to be easier, there’s long term strategies of showing up, of building automated processes to warm people up, and having a content plan, but if you want clients sooner rather than later, you can, there are short term strategies that you could do to get things going just by being a regular person and communicating and sharing your value with people.

– So you talk about consistency, what does that mean? Consistency where, how?

– So what I mean and I have a free consistency challenge that takes you through three days of how can you be more consistent in your life and it’s at haileyrowe.com/consistency, but what I mean by consistency where and how, would be number one, everyday are you talking about what you do online? So that would look like either Facebook Lives, that would look like an Instagram story, that would like a post, ideally it would be all of those, right? A couple times a week and setting up framework that you can commit to so for example, I know I could do Facebook Lives every Wednesday. I know I can do Instagram Stories daily behind the scenes of what I do and things like that. So my suggestion would be number one, to decide how consistent you need to be first, you have to get clear on what platforms do I need to be on? In other words, what are the top one or two platforms your ideal clients hang out on. Is it LinkedIn, is it Facebook, is it Instagram, is it they listen to podcasts, what is it, and pick one or two to stick with first. So you don’t have to be on all the platforms at the same time in the beginning. Number two, is say, “Okay, now that I know “I’m gonna commit to for example, Facebook, “okay, what does that look like?” Well that means I’m gonna start going live every Wednesday at 4:30 and get people in this motion that we have Q and A Wednesday or whatever, right? And then number two, that means I’m gonna everyday talk about either you know, Mondays I’m gonna share testimonials, Tuesdays I’m gonna share value posts, Wednesdays I’m gonna tell my story, or story of a client et cetera. And we can go deeper into this and I know that might be confusing to people who don’t know like how to write content and that kind of thing, but I think you have to break it down per platform what consistency is gonna mean for you and what you can stick to consistently because I also see, here’s what not to do if you wanna be consistent, is deciding on your platform, yeah I’m gonna do Facebook, and then saying, “Oh yeah, I’m gonna post seven days a week, “three times a day,” blah, blah, blah, and then you burn yourself out and then you do nothing after that. So I think you need to come up with what is a sustainable model for me to start with and really stick to and then I can add on or repurpose content, or do things from there because otherwise you’re gonna burn out so making sure you come up with what could I be sharing each day to invigorate interest in my offer, and then the last part of consistency aside from just planning how much you’re gonna show up with content, is how consistent are you gonna be with connecting with your audience. Because it’s one thing to post on social media, and leave it there, it’s another thing to actually have an interest in the people who are commenting on your stuff, who are liking your stuff, who are messaging you and being able to guide them to the next step, if it’s a fit, which could be your discovery call or your sales page or whatever when it’s appropriate.

– So, that’s a lot of time, right?

– Yeah.

– It’s a lot of time and one of the things that I hear often is, “Okay, but my message kind of changes “depending upon my audience,” and each of those platforms is a little bit different audience. So how do I adapt and adjust for that, given also the consistency is so important?

– Yeah, so how do you adapt per platform when you have limited time, is that right?

– Yes.

– So one of the things in the beginning. I used to share my, and I still do this ’cause I don’t have unlimited time either. And what I do is in the beginning I’ll pick one of my main platforms that’s the juiciest place to send people, and I’ll just take the same content and put it on all the other platforms. And this is something I wanna make sure is clear. You don’t have to have different posts for different platforms. You could, is it better to for example, take in a, like for example, on LinkedIn, it wouldn’t make that much sense to have like a cute photo of you that you might have on Instagram with you know, “Hey, happy Friday,” you know, something that’s not super professional, do you know what I mean? But at the same time, what I’m saying is you can share your posts across all platforms, and eventually when you’re ready to tweak per platform, you can, but don’t do, for example, LinkedIn if it doesn’t make sense to put your Instagram Friday posts on LinkedIn, just don’t do that and it’s fine. So I guess I hope I’m not, I think I’m butchering the question a little bit, but my suggestion would be it does take time and that’s why you gotta pick one place to send everybody and try to get them to your best platform, and really hone in on that first, and then if you can share your stuff to other platforms, great, but ideally you start with one, you’re consistent with it, putting in the time and then you can create a system for how you can maybe repurpose content or share content to other platforms.

– So Hailey, if you do this, how do you look at and evaluate your effectiveness? Ultimately it’s revenue, but how do you really as you’re building the steps, how do you determine you’re moving up the ladder or steps, and not going side ways or downwards? What measure?

– I love that question ’cause a lot of times we just get pulled into the daily hustle of everything and we never look at what’s actually working, so every month I keep track of certain metrics and what my biggest metric for me personally, and it won’t be for every type of business, but for me it’s calls. Number of discovery calls per month. So if I’m not getting consistent discovery calls, I know my content isn’t compelling enough people to act, I know I might not be connecting with enough people, I know maybe I need more eyeballs on my stuff, and so I’ll have to look at what might be causing me not having connections with people on calls. Because I know that’s a key number for me, meaning if I get a certain number of calls and my conversion rate is typically a certain range, I can know I’ll have X clients this month, if that makes sense. So I think working backwards from whatever you offer is, what is the key number that needs to happen before they buy? So do they need to show up this webinar because you know if they show up to this webinar, 20% will sign up, like figuring out what that is for you is key and then from there, the next part is making sure that if you’re not hitting that number, looking at what posts did perform the best as far as generating somebody talking to you and signing up for a call. What kind of posts did get shared the most that more people saw it and so therefore you have a higher chance of people going to the link in your bio, or whatever you are promoting. So I look at mainly calls. I actually don’t think that social media likes, or focusing on that matters to be honest. What I think matters more is the number of outreach and connections you’re making with your audience, who’s engaging with you and number of calls per month for me. So I hope that helps a little bit.

– It sure does. And if you’re looking at, okay number of calls, on average, what should, if you’re doing a fairly decent job, what should be your conversion rate?

– Yeah, so if you’re in high ticket, it should be.

– What’s high ticket because everybody has a different definition.

– I would say if it’s over $1000, that’s what I define as high ticket. A good conversion rate would be about 20%. I think you can honestly have more than that based on how much pre-qualifying you do before the calls. Like if you have an application form, depending on how well you warm them up in emails beforehand, I do think you can have a higher rate than that for sure, but at the same time, that’s the standard that you should and most people realize, they feel like, “Oh my God, maybe I’m not doing something right “’cause somebody didn’t sign up.” The truth is, you’re just gonna get no’s. No matter how amazing your marketing is, and whatever, you’re just gonna have some people who say, “No,” and you have to understand that that that’s just the statistics, the logistics of marketing, and take your emotions out of it.

– You know, it’s so hard to do that isn’t it? All of us want, most of us can move into entrepreneurship, building businesses, if you’re in a leadership role, we’re using to commanding results. So to be working at this level and it’s personal, it tends to be very difficult for many people I think, giving up that sense of this is me versus this is business and it’s simply, in a sense a numbers game.

– That has been for sure the hardest thing for me because I love what I do so much, and I feel confident about it, and then when you’re like, you can’t change somebody’s either psychology in one discovery call. You can do as much as you can to overcome objections, but if somebody’s not committed, somebody’s just doesn’t want something enough, you can’t necessarily change that for them, and that’s been the hardest part for me is seeing so much potential and loving what I do so much, but needing to separate the numbers game and just facts, from the emotional part for sure.

– So Hailey, what brings you the greatest joy in what you do?

– Yeah, I would say what brings me the greatest joy is when my clients are successful. I’ve had clients who go from really having no idea what they want their business to look like to making more than their corporate income. Most recently, that was one of my clients in four month period. So that makes me so happy and teaching, just like supporting people and knowing that they can create their reality, and they can, you know, there’s things out of our control of course, like coronavirus or. You know, what’s gonna happen to the economy and all of that, but for the most part, there’s so much you can create for your life and so when you just open yourself up to that, and you’re facing limiting beliefs head on and you’re putting yourself out there, and you’re seeing that it works, like I love seeing that transformation in my clients.

– You know, it is true isn’t it? I think that’s what all of us really thrive on is seeing that change and transformation in people. One of the things that interested me in what you said earlier was that one of your lives, you will have be an interview of somebody, a testimonial, somebody has used, is using your product or your methodology, or has used it and you do a live session with them, tell us a little bit about that ’cause I think that is one of the most underused too.

– Yes. I realized when I asked myself, “What works?” Like every once in a while you get a funk in your business and you have to go back and be like, “What has worked?” and always one of the things I come back to on that list is social proof. Meaning, putting out my testimonials, sharing my clients’ stories. That works because it’s not me just talking the talk, it’s actually having my clients who done something, who created something there, and sharing their story, rather than me just like sharing my story, so I think social proof is something really valuable and it helps people because there’s a lot of, how do I say this? We live in a world where the online world is becoming harder to trust ’cause it’s very saturated and there’s a lot of information and there’s a lot of different programs, and so at the end of the day, what do people care about? They care that they’re gonna get a return on whatever they do, whether that’s more knowledge, more skillset, more money, more health if you’re a health coach, whatever, right? They care about a return, and they care that they’re not signing up for something vague that they’re not quite sure if it’s gonna work, and so ways that you can, any way that you can confirm that if they are teachable, if they are open to doing this, they’re gonna get results that you should be putting that out there in your marketing. So the best way to do that for most people is testimonials.

– How do you go about asking for that? ‘Cause that seems also I think to a lot of people, a scary thing.

– Yeah.

– Or if I think some people fear it’s using them, using your clients, so how do you go about doing that?

– Yeah, I mean to me, I think that’s tough because I’ve always, like if I have a really good coach, or if I do really good program, I like raving about them and I want them to succeed, so and whenever I’m using a product, like I just tend to talk, I just get excited about it, but at the same time, people’s times limited et cetera. So what I have done in the past is I just plainly asked and I shared that they can share their offer on my platform, so if like, I think you have to always ask, “What’s in it for the other person?” So if you’re afraid to ask your client to do a testimonial video or something like that, make sure you communicate, “Hey, this could be a great opportunity “because it can get you exposure “and I’m more than happy for you “to share what you do in the video, “and what your current offer is,” so that’s what I do just because that’s the kind of people I work with. If your clients aren’t business owners, so in other words, if it wouldn’t really benefit them to be on your platform, then what you could do is think about what could I offer? Could I offer a free bonus? Could I offer a free coaching session as a thank you? Or free product if you’re product-based business? So think about what incentive without you know, being unethical, which I think, what would be unethical is if you for example, legally you cannot ask somebody and be like, “Hey, can you leave a five star review?” You have to say, “Can you leave an honest review?” So just makes sure you’re talking in whatever legal, you gotta look into the legal parameters, but make sure you ask like, “And as a thank you, we’ll send you a free gift of blank, “or some gift of time,” something like that.

– Got it. So Hailey, our time has gone very very quickly, and I just wanna ask you. Last comments, thoughts that you wanna share before we leave this podcast that we haven’t talked about that you think is really important for people to know?

– You know, I think part of what I’ll leave this podcast with is knowing that marketing and sales are what take your business from just being a hobby and something you’re thinking about to actually being a real business, and so the more you can excite yourself about learning about it, about executing it and understanding that it’s not salesy, or like shifting your mindset around the way you see marketing and sales so you’re actually motivated to learn it, you gotta get on that because if you fear sales, or if you think it’s asking someone for money or convincing someone for something, that is gonna derail your business because of course you’re never gonna be motivated to launch something or sell, of course. Because you think it’s bad, icky and you’re convincing somebody or stealing from somebody, that’s not how it works, right? So making sure you have a good product, or that you feel confident about, you deliver, you over-deliver, and then from there, shifting your mindset around marketing and sales so that you’re gonna be motivated to execute it consistently.

– Got it. Hailey, thank you so much for your time, it’s been great to have you with us on “Building my Legacy” podcast today, and we look forward to connecting again. For those of you again, your course that you were talking about that’s available is, where do they find that if you could just repeat that?

– Yeah, so this free consistency challenge, and it’s available at haileyrowe.com/consistency. So that’s H-A-I-L-E-Y R-O-W-E.com/consistency. And I’m also over at the Health Coach Nation Facebook group and podcast, and at hailey_rowe on Instagram.

– That information will also be in the show notes, so it will be easily accessible for all of you who are interested. Thank you so much for being with us today, and thank you Hailey for your time.

– Thank you, I appreciate it.

– So.